tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post6246433513552180137..comments2024-02-24T17:21:11.148-08:00Comments on Storming the Ivory Tower: The Remarkable Queerness of Shinji IkariSam Keeperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00863236889998956170noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-88351407487667180152019-04-05T02:45:08.392-07:002019-04-05T02:45:08.392-07:00i love this analysis (and your writing style! supe...i love this analysis (and your writing style! super not! glassy fish eye inducing) and the part in the comments discussing whether shinji is truly bi/pan or just sucked into kaworus black hole of affection made me consider a third option: imo hes demisexual (demiromantic? i dont wanna go on at length on romantic vs sexual desire u-u) or only attracted to those he becomes emotionally close to. <br /><br />personally i think if asuka had instead gave the undying, UNHEALTHY love that kaworu did (imo, which was only possible bc that literally was his sole purpose and had no other influencing factors ie life), kaworu may not have impacted him as much. or maybe if he had the genuine & clearly conveyed emotional support of asuka/literally anyone we could end up with a slightly less pathetic despair ridden guy who could see kaworu as his own person, as you mentioned O:<br /><br />...but anyway if eva had healthy relationships it wouldnt be eva, huh ? ToTnoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-3757380464635849552019-03-22T18:14:52.155-07:002019-03-22T18:14:52.155-07:00This was a very good write-up. As someone who'...This was a very good write-up. As someone who's really gotten into "Kawoshin" as a ship recently, I think you make some pretty good points, especially the ones that point out how dysfunctional a relationship they'd probably still have had Kaworu not died. <br /><br />I was left thinking that it would've made for a really interesting story on its own - if Kaworu lives beyond Ep. 24, the world (or what's left of it) is saved, everything goes back to normal(ish) and the two start a relationship as boyfriends. What happens when Shinji's intense need for affection runs dry? What happens when Kaworu, living as a normal human possibly for the first time now, develops self-awareness and realises he doesn't *have* to be reduced to being Shinji's love-pet, for lack of a better term? There's probably a lot more to go with it, but that alone would be a massive conflict that one could build a really interesting romantic story around. <br /><br />As for the "Shinji's totally bi and nobody's willing to admit it" thing; I've heard lots of heresy over the years that a lot of Evangelion is specifically written to troll or anger its own fanbase - or maybe that was just The End? - but with that in mind maybe they should enshrine Shinji & Kaworu as the franchise's main couple in the last Rebuild movie* - after all, what else would anger and offend the show's mostly-straight fanbase more than officially outing its protagonist as a bi boy who's first real love is another boy?<br /><br />* - yes I'm aware of how the 3rd movie endsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452720166621476038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-42200078793726392532016-01-23T04:14:38.871-08:002016-01-23T04:14:38.871-08:00The truth is shinji is and will always be a piece ...The truth is shinji is and will always be a piece of shit. And his fanbase is full of homophobic assholes. JAZZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08340768161183470626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-8179439031587632942015-08-22T03:14:20.006-07:002015-08-22T03:14:20.006-07:00The writers on the anime even said that Kaworu was...The writers on the anime even said that Kaworu was so striking that Shinji couldn't help but blush - just go read the episode 24 drafts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-19541339009851941332015-08-22T03:12:07.388-07:002015-08-22T03:12:07.388-07:00Actually, Asuka does have romantic feelings for Sh... Actually, Asuka does have romantic feelings for Shinji. She just has issues, including a slightly different version of the Hedgehog's dilemma. She is afraid to get too close to people, as she wants to be independent and doesn't want to face anything that her mother did to her again. Also no father. So she is mean and pushes people away. She remains independent because she musn't get hurt and she has to be smart on her own, or else no one will like her. Her mother liked the doll better than her in the end.<br /> That's why Asuka kisses Shinji, but blows it off as nothing. She likes him, and he kinda likes her, but they can't communicate that - nor do they want to. Getting hurt has happened too much. I agree with the "filling in for rei then for asuka" idea. Makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-28011018961955900812015-08-22T03:05:53.580-07:002015-08-22T03:05:53.580-07:00You're right. He's pan.You're right. He's pan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-72688341237121906952015-08-22T03:04:50.515-07:002015-08-22T03:04:50.515-07:00I'm surprised you didn't even reference th... I'm surprised you didn't even reference the original manga. Kaworu gains feelings for Shinji partially through Rei and other means, then kisses Shinji and asks him to love him back. Of course, the protagonist is dealing with that hedgehog's dilemma and still thinking about Rei-2, so he goes against this.<br /> Just before Unit-01 kills Kaworu, Shinji admits to not hating Kaworu in the slightest. Kaworu urges Shinji to kill him, saying "You can show your true feelings for me...if you kill me... This is my final wish." Of course Shinji states a few pages later that he was attracted to Kaworu and "shouldn't like a guy like that."<br /> But I see what the cssmit comment says: Shinji was a bottomless pit of need. Only in the third Rebuild series does Shinji appear somewhat stable (though only for a very short period of time) with Kaworu. I don't think anything is supposed to work in Eva.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-38723745746871056672015-06-18T21:05:41.564-07:002015-06-18T21:05:41.564-07:00And also, hate the truth? it is an acknowledged fa...And also, hate the truth? it is an acknowledged fact in the Eva fandom that Shinji could be gay or bi, no one is denying that. And also, why are you talking about Asuka and Rei as though their saints who are victims of Shinji's "abusiveness" (aka weakness that is exaggerated by you because of your biased hatred for him), Asuka and Rei are as flawed as he is, and just because thay act stronger that doesn't mean they are any better. In EoE Asuka only regained her senses after she realized her mother's soul is inside the Eva, which means that she didn't really grow that much, she still needed her mother to give her strength, she didn't gain it on her own. Rei has never really understood human nature because she is not fully human herself, therefore she isn't acually strong because she doesn't really have emotions, her "strength" is actually her emptiness not letting her feel fear, therefore her strength is not actually real.<br /><br />I've never understood how everyone in the whole damn show is allowed to have their own little flaws but Shinji gets hate for his own. And before you accuse me of being an "Eva fanboy who can't accept the truth", yes, he is wimpy (let's see how you react when you're fighting monsters from other dimension that can kill you in thousands of ways), yes he whines a lot (umm he's a 14-year-old, don't most people at that age do that a lot of time too?), yes he has urges towards Asuka (and yet she's the one makeing advances towards him many times in the show) but how does this make him despicable? I've seen this traits in many people too and that doesn't make them unlikable, it just makes them human. Shinji may be weak but everyone else in the show is as well, they just do a better job at hiding it than he does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-14139580088468730542015-06-18T20:14:57.394-07:002015-06-18T20:14:57.394-07:00Wait, what? so you're saying that Shinji's...Wait, what? so you're saying that Shinji's characterization in fanfics is just some desperate attempt at making him look likeable. Dude, you miss the point in those fanfics, the objective is that of fixing Shinji, of giving him better circumstances so that he'll turn out to not be so fucked up. Have you ever read "Genocide", In that story Shinji is exactly the same as his canon counterpart. And also, in Nobody Dies Asuka may act weak but she is very strong on the inside as shown by many of the chapters there, the opposite of her canon self where she is weak but only acts strong, and lol, Rei a weak fluff girl, the author of the story made her almost as powerful as an Eldritch Abomination, I'd hardly call that weak, and she never shows romantic interest in Shinji anywhere in the story.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-393186835928848332015-02-03T08:12:52.700-08:002015-02-03T08:12:52.700-08:00Eva fans hate the truth. They don't want to ac...Eva fans hate the truth. They don't want to accept or hear that shinji is gay or bi. Hes also unstable, sailfish, misogyny and dangerous. He don't like strong masculine girls instead he wants them to be more girlie then he is. Once the females pilots saw shinji for who he really is they turn on him and had every right to do so. Rei and Asuka are stronger then shinji and outgrow him by EOE. Pretty much every relationship in eva is unhealthy, unstable and unsafe. The only one that seem stable is kensuke and toji. Two characters who are more mature then shinji ever was. Fans ignore this for their stupid fanfics and websites try to twist everything around to make fans think shinji not bad as he seem. Gregg landsman who wrote ND Is living proof of this. In all his eva fics he make shinji out to be this badass action hero who is straight while turning the females pilots into weak fluff girls that are fighting to see who will have shinji baby. He is bad for eva fans cause he is does is write fics making the characters look bad. The world of eva is not gonna put anyone whit shinji just to make him or the fans happy. Until shinji accept himself and other around him he will never find happiness. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-50196595262777175292014-07-11T08:12:30.659-07:002014-07-11T08:12:30.659-07:00That was supposed to be a general reply and not to...That was supposed to be a general reply and not to you specifically, sorry.Soren Lundihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631661346919474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-83077369605872166442014-07-11T08:11:26.023-07:002014-07-11T08:11:26.023-07:00It's been about 15 years since I've watche...It's been about 15 years since I've watched Eva so I might just be pulling this out of my ass, but I always had the impression that Kaworu was specifically designed to appeal to Shinji/Shinji's unconscious desires. When he says he was made to meet Shinji he's being totally literal. He's a bio-engineered honey-trap kaiju spy who fails his mission after falling in love with the mark. The other Angels don't appear to have gender (which makes sense biblically), so Kaworu's gender is just a part of his human disguise. Soren Lundihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631661346919474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-21261604464972794512014-07-09T06:19:52.817-07:002014-07-09T06:19:52.817-07:00This... bites off more then it can chew, I think.
...This... bites off more then it can chew, I think.<br /><br />Shinji's defining character trait is his desperate need of somebody to love him. As such, anybody will do. As such, we can that say that Shinji is willing to have a relationship with anybody of any gender, and as such he's pansexual.<br /><br />But, that's kind of glossing over a bunch of stuff. If, as a hypothetical, we were to say Shinji lost this trait - he was no longer desperately searching for literally anyone - would he still be pansexual? If his pansexuality is a result of his character trait, then if that trait is gone surely his sexuality could change? This seems kind of wrong to me. Then how about the alternative, does Shinji's character trait to need anybody only exist because he's pansexual? This also seems wrong, it's very odd to assert that his desperate need of love from anyone wouldn't happen if he wasn't pansexual.<br /><br />Instead, I think, Shinji's sexuality isn't addressed or is really addressable at all in Eva. Shinji's desperate need for anybody comes in front. He may be straight, he may be homosexual, he may be whatever - Shinji would act exactly the same way.<br /><br />You could however, argue that Shinji clearly thinks of Asuka sexually, because of one scene (that one scene). It's a bit harder to fit into a narrative of Shinji only caring about being loved, is all, so we might count that as his only real count of showing sexuality. But that doesn't rule out bisexuality/pansexuality, and it's not slam dunk evidence that he is actually sexually interested in women.<br /><br />I think what the people who think Shinji is straight do is rule out Kaworu as sexual because Shinji will desperately cling on to anybody (which is reasonable), and then either auto-complete him as heteronormative, or just count Asuka without really wondering whether or not you could rule her out too. Which is still bad, but it's not as bad as having a 100% obviously bi/pan character and going "Nope, straight"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-11302028368242413852014-07-09T04:29:38.654-07:002014-07-09T04:29:38.654-07:00I think that the whole compartmentalized sexuality...I think that the whole compartmentalized sexuality thing (being "straight" or "gay") is just cultural anyway. Everyone probably places somewhere in a sliding scale, leaning towards one of the two ends of the spectrum merely based on personal preferences. Then again, context is everything - our nature is not set in stone nor merely written in our DNA. I wouldn't even put the matter down as "Shinji is bi". Shinji is desperately in need of someone to connect to, to relate with, ANYONE, even an alien entity bent on world destruction (who also happens to be the same sex as him). At that point of the series, when he meets Kaworu, it just doesn't take much to push his right buttons. And sexual attraction is an elastic, shapeless thing anyway, that can fit many different kinds of people if let without any specific constraints or social expectations.Simonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00269789379747065457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-75889576103431172472014-07-08T02:21:30.975-07:002014-07-08T02:21:30.975-07:00Ehh, I agree that Kaworu is kind of a replacement ...Ehh, I agree that Kaworu is kind of a replacement for Asuka and Asuka certainly doesn't go along with a typical role in the narrative, but I wouldn't say she has no interest in Shinji. It's just that the two of them are so screwed up and he reminds her of herself (whom she hates) enough that although she does probably have romantic feelings for him, there's no way it could ever be a healthy relationship and I think that's the point. Considering that she's supposed to deconstruct the typical fiery tsundere archetype, I'd say that makes sense for her.<br /><br />That said, fantastic article. I love that you touched on the fact that Kaworu/Shinji would, quite frankly, be unhealthy as fuck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-43154701996928710842014-07-07T20:54:08.695-07:002014-07-07T20:54:08.695-07:00"Hmmmm...what is the reply I can give that wi..."Hmmmm...what is the reply I can give that will make it the most obvious that I have not actually read the essay while still politely pretending that I have? Oh! I know!"<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-17196057056458195772014-07-07T20:25:32.216-07:002014-07-07T20:25:32.216-07:00How... how is that a counterargument?
Shinji disp...How... how is that a counterargument?<br /><br />Shinji displays sexual and romantic attraction to people of both sexes in the series and in the movies. Sooooooooooooo .... how is he not bi?<br /><br />Seriously. I want to know. How!?Zomburaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930949619885190582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-68804657769535006512014-07-07T20:21:14.260-07:002014-07-07T20:21:14.260-07:00Oh well that clears that up then.Oh well that clears that up then.Sam Keeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863236889998956170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-89038359854577120442014-07-07T19:59:35.299-07:002014-07-07T19:59:35.299-07:00@joeinformatico: Ah, ok. I know Anno had some spec...@joeinformatico: Ah, ok. I know Anno had some specific requests for the English adaptation (like calling the "disciples" "angels"), so it makes sense if he intervened. <br /><br />His name is written with the obsolete wo, カヲル instead of カオル. Over the years the "wo" evolved into the same sound as "o", so when the writing system was modernized in the 19th century it was removed, except as a particular grammatical marker. It's odd but not impossible to still use it in a name, however, although the pronunciation would still be "o".<br /><br />Actually, my first thought when I wrote that was that the archaic spelling is an attempt to evoke a classical Kaoru, and the Kaoru of Genji would be the most obvious target. But I couldn't see how the allegory fit. The Kaoru of Genji falls in love with a woman who wants him to marry her sister instead and eventually dies from the stress of the the situation. Then he desires the sister (now wife of his friend) as a replacement, and finally starts sleeping with her step-sister, who attempts to commit suicide when Kaoru and his friend start fighting over her. (In some ways, Genji is more messed up than Eva)<br />Kaoru of Genji destroys his loves, rather than being destroyed by them. Unless it's that Kaoru drives his lover (Shinji/Ukifune) to suicide? Ukifune throws herself into the river, like Shinji gives himself to the great LCL river of humanity in EoE? Ukifune then gets rescued by a monastery and becomes a nun, thus escaping the two men and the whole world of sexual politics ==> Shinji escapes the difficult world of relationships and rejection when he washes ashore at the very end of EoE? It feels like a stretch, since Ukifune jumped into the river to escape Kaoru, whereas Shinji was arguably trying to reclaim his Kaoru... but maybe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-53757386052242168282014-07-07T19:19:20.063-07:002014-07-07T19:19:20.063-07:00Very well said.
Shinji's still not bi.Very well said.<br />Shinji's still not bi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-71879560451935919932014-07-07T19:05:15.549-07:002014-07-07T19:05:15.549-07:00I kind of love the idea of Kaworu acting narrative...I kind of love the idea of Kaworu acting narratively as a replacement for Asuka. That's an excellent insight.<br /><br />Thanks @joeinformatico for the Kaworu information. I honestly don't know a whole lot about that naming convention, though I read while researching this article that there's an Angel pun in his name as well. Because of course there is.Sam Keeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863236889998956170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-21895773703615726252014-07-07T19:03:09.775-07:002014-07-07T19:03:09.775-07:00It's probably my least favorite, besides the n...It's probably my least favorite, besides the non-argument that is just people wilfully acting like bisexuality isn't even a thing. >_<Sam Keeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863236889998956170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-84311373877285522532014-07-07T19:02:05.578-07:002014-07-07T19:02:05.578-07:00Yeah, it's one of the many things that just di...Yeah, it's one of the many things that just didn't make it in. I'm trying not to let EVERY article spiral wildly out of control.<br /><br />(I also tend to read that as a joke... but at the same time Kaji's totally comfortable enough to MAKE the joke, and the dude is a hardcore charmer in every other respect so...)<br /><br />(Also pretty sure his reply was something to the effect of "Gender makes no difference in love." Kaji is amazing.)Sam Keeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863236889998956170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-48404888809843208512014-07-07T09:42:43.035-07:002014-07-07T09:42:43.035-07:00I'm actually kind of surprised that you didn&#...I'm actually kind of surprised that you didn't mention Kaji's potential bi-/pansexuality. I mean, there is that one scene where he's with Shinji and does some kind of blatant flirt (I forget exactly what), Shinji's like "but I'm a boy!" and Kaji replies something along the lines of "So?"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04746417922156210177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-56230747868041478.post-21825109420754460082014-07-07T07:41:06.355-07:002014-07-07T07:41:06.355-07:00Yeah, "you're just confused" is alre...Yeah, "you're just confused" is already one of my least favorite arguments, and I haven't even gotten it all that often. For such an important community to me, geek culture can be incredibly sexist, racist, and cis/heteronormative. Casually, without thinking about it. And while pulling the "we're just going by cannon!" card. >:/ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com